Open Space Ethos and Land Conservation

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the 2006 city-county open space bonds, which have supported public projects like Marshall Mountain Park and the Rock Creek Confluence. But did you know that the first open space bond was approved by Missoula voters back in 1980? 

This week the commissioners spoke with Jenny Zaso, open lands manager for Missoula County, about how conserving open space is both a shared value for our community and valuable tool for private landowners.

 
Thank you to Missoula's Community Media Resource for podcast recording support!

Transcript

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:10] Welcome back to the agenda, everybody, with the Missoula County Commissioners. I'm Josh Slotnick, and I'm here with my fellow commissioners and friends, Dave Strohmaier and Juanita Vero. And we have with us Jenny Zaso, who runs our open space program. Welcome, welcome, Jenny.

Jenny Zaso: [00:00:24] Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:25] Why don't you start by just giving us a little biographical sketch of where you've come from to get to this very esteemed position that you're in today.

Jenny Zaso: [00:00:34] Sure. Well, working in land conservation has been a part of my life, probably instilled within me since childhood. So I grew up on a dairy farm in western New York State, and it was actually leased, conserved land, which just so happens to be sort of the career trajectory that I took and made some deviations.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:53] But before you go like, what is that? What do you mean leased conserved land?

Jenny Zaso: [00:00:56] Yeah. So my dad was a dairy farmer and was able to afford being on the land and working the land and working a dairy because he was able to lease conserved land, which means that its development value had been donated away by the landowners. And therefore we were able to be there and we grew sweet corn and other sort of veggies. We had a lot of pasture land. Forested land was open for public hunting access. So it was just an incredible place to grow up because of all of those things. And flash forward, now I'm able to go back 40 plus years later and I still see it teeming with wildlife. I still see the local schools come and hunt for fossils. There was a gully on the property that has all of these fossils, and I took school trips there, and now school trips still happen there. And so it's just always been a part of my life to understand the community benefits of open and conserved land. Wow. From living there. And yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:57] So you got, you got out here to Montana somehow.

Jenny Zaso: [00:01:59] I did. Yes. I got out here to Montana. Montana? This is the place to just enjoy open spaces and recreation. I did work for Land Trust out East, and then came here and worked at Five Valleys Land Trust.

Juanita Vero: [00:02:12] And how did you connect? Think of that. Like why Montana? Sure, I could have been anywhere in the West.

Jenny Zaso: [00:02:18] Yeah. So I have a bit of a story there. So my fiance, who I met in Vermont when I was living there, really wanted to be a wildland firefighter. And so he came out west and was on the Lolo hotshot crew here. And we were making a life out here. And I was just about to move out here. We obviously loved it. We had tons of plans. We both loved to fish. We both love to hike, to hunt, to recreate. Unfortunately, he lost his life fighting fires when he was on the Lolo Hotshot crew in 2016. So I ended up staying a little bit longer in Vermont, but I still wanted to come out here and to sort of have our adventures and be out in this magical space. And so I decided to to come out here and first worked for the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. So it took a step away from land conservation, but always just kept calling me back. And so that's sort of where I decided to work for Five Valleys Land Trust for Farm Connect Montana, working on farmland conservation. And so I'm raising a family here now. I have a three year old really excited to be sort of hyper locally focused on open lands at Missoula County as Open Lands manager.

Juanita Vero: [00:03:20] Oh, fantastic.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:21] We're glad to have you.

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:22] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:22] Thanks. That's an incredible story.

Juanita Vero: [00:03:24] It's a great story.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:25] Yeah yeah.

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:26] So a tough road, but yeah, happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:30] We're really happy you're here, too.

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:31] Thank you.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:32] So we have this open space bond program.

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:35] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:35] Can you describe exactly what that is?

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:38] Sure. So the most rewarding part of my job is administering the open space bond program for the county.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:43] I thought she was going to say doing a podcast with the county commissioner.

Speaker 5: [00:03:47] Oh. Also this. Okay. This is this is new. I'll let you know how it is afterward. Okay.

Jenny Zaso: [00:03:54] Yeah. So Missoula County voters approved a total of $25 million in open space bond funding, both with a 2006 open space bond for $10 million and in 2018, another 15 million. And so those funds are split between the city and the county. Our county open space funds really focus on more of the rural areas of the county. So you'll see a lot of ag land projects and other things, but also a lot of public access projects as well, which we'll hopefully be able to get into a little bit more specifically. So those bonds are established either purchase open lands, fund conservation easements, or other legal interests in land, or make improvements to publicly accessible lands. And they have to and this is what the voter approved language. I think it's really important for everybody to know those projects have to meet the following goals for conserving, enjoying and enhancing open space land, including public access, conserving agricultural lands, fish and wildlife habitat, and rivers, lakes and streams, and protecting scenic views and making improvements to open space land.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:53] So super important that those criteria are out there. One little jab we get often enough is when people recognize a real problem out there in the community. This intersection really needs to be fixed. This bridge needs to be replaced. There are horrible potholes on my road and how dare you crazy people go by Marshall Mountain instead of fixing this bridge. Could you explain how that criticism fits with the criteria you just mentioned and the voter piece of the open space bond?

Jenny Zaso: [00:05:20] Definitely. So it's very clear there's an interlocal agreement that are attached to these bonds. It's very clear that these bonds cannot be used to pay for other services programs, initiatives. Bond money cannot be spent on any sort of expenses outside the language approved by voters. So there's a whole process that open space bond funding requests go through. So it's really land trusts and land conservation organizations that are able to come to us with an application for funding. There's a level one application that's a little more general, which just kind of lets us know if that project is eligible based on that criteria that I just said. And then it goes to level two, where we have a wonderful open land citizen advisory committee that is actually the recommending body to you, all county commissioners for projects to be funded with open space bond. And so it has very particular parameters that it has to meet.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:08] And I think what you said earlier needs to be underscored that these are voter approved.

Jenny Zaso: [00:06:13] Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:14] Dollars. And and I think maybe a little bit of what we're we're sensing from from some folks out there across Missoula County, maybe. Okay. Yeah, it was voter. The bond was voter approved, but I didn't vote in favor of it. Therefore, I would prefer that we spend our money in a different way. Well, it's it's really not an option. This is what the majority.

Juanita Vero: [00:06:35] Welcome to your preference.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:37] 51% gets, gets gets you what you what you get. So.

Juanita Vero: [00:06:40] Oh, I was gonna say another complaint we get is that around public access and some projects don't require or include or allow public access. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jenny Zaso: [00:06:50] Right. We get that question a lot too. Like aren't properties purchased with open space bond funds or easements. All publicly accessible and not necessarily. But let me just clarify a few things. So many of the county projects that are funded are conservation easements. So we're working with a conservation organization who's holding an easement on private property.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:11] To do a quick couple sentences on what an easement is, just in case there might be.

Speaker 5: [00:07:14] People out there. I love the it.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:07:15] Means to hold.

Speaker 5: [00:07:16] It. I love.

Jenny Zaso: [00:07:17] That you asked that question, because I think all of us who kind of work in conservation just take for granted that everybody knows what a conservation easement.

Speaker 5: [00:07:24] Is. Complicated thing.

Jenny Zaso: [00:07:25] Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:07:26] So my easement and watch this.

Speaker 5: [00:07:28] I love that.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:07:29] Okay.

Speaker 5: [00:07:29] That's great. Okay.

Jenny Zaso: [00:07:31] So a conservation easement is a legal agreement that protects land from certain types of development while allowing the landowner to still continue owning and living on the property. So think of it as separating the ownership of land from the right to develop it in certain ways. However, that is prohibited in the conservation easement. That could be no subdivision, no commercial development, no houses, things like.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:54] What you're saying then is these conservation easements are very custom done?

Speaker 5: [00:07:58] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:59] It isn't one conservation easement. That's how it is for everybody.

Jenny Zaso: [00:08:02] Right. So the landowner still owns the property. They can farm it, they can ranch it. They can use it for other permitted purposes as it's outlined in the conservation easement. They can pass it on to their children. The restrictions that are set in place by the landowner who puts the easement on their property, though that is in perpetuity, that those are the restrictions that will run with the property forever. So that's an important piece. But that landowner at the time, he or she might know that they're passing it on to the next generation and decide to put a building envelope on the property, which means they've excluded one home site. That home site is the only other place they'll ever be able to build something. Maybe there'll be an exemption for agricultural buildings, things like that. So it is customizable.

Speaker 5: [00:08:43] Great. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:08:44] So how about the cost? Generally speaking, what's the cost of a conservation easement relative to the development value. And that property.

Jenny Zaso: [00:08:53] That really changes over time. I mean, we're seeing now that it really depends on the market value of properties and what the trends are in the past. You know, your developable value, people were able to realize a large difference between what the property would be worth with a conservation easement on it where they couldn't develop versus, you know, what it would be.

Speaker 5: [00:09:15] If.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:15] Development.

Speaker 5: [00:09:15] Value.

Jenny Zaso: [00:09:16] Could do full development value. Now we're seeing a lot of people who, you know, come to Montana for our open space and the difference between that developable value and what people are willing to pay just is not as large.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:27] So there's somebody out there looking for a 100 acre estate. They don't care about development. They're not going to develop it anyway.

Jenny Zaso: [00:09:33] They may find the value is so wonderful because it has the conservation easement on it, you know, which is great. But I think when it comes to landowner benefits, so landowner does get income tax, federal income tax benefits from putting an easement on their property. But what that looks like and what value they're able to to get or sort of how the easement is valued. Even those developable rights can vary very differently depending on where you are in the county, where you are in the country, and also just real estate trends.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:59] Who decides about those values?

Jenny Zaso: [00:10:01] So an appraisal has to be done, which is a big cost when you're doing a easement transaction. That's one of the things that open space bond funds can be used for. Those transaction costs and appraisal really tells you kind of where you're at and kind of helps to come up with that formula for easement valuation.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:17] So I often think of Missoula County as being an innovator, dare I say, at the tip of the spear.

Josh Slotnick: [00:10:25] But formerly known as.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:27] In the in the case at hand today, uh, with this this conversation with conservation easements and such. Are there other places around Montana doing similar things? Where do we kind of stack in, in the, uh, the, the grand scheme of things?

Speaker 5: [00:10:41] Sure.

Jenny Zaso: [00:10:42] Yeah. I did a little digging into this recently actually. So open space bonds and or levies are different ways in which counties are, you know, In the funding conservation projects, but they're common enough to be a well-established local government tool while still being far from universal across the United States. And so where you see open space bond funding, it's really concentrated in states and communities that have high land stewardship ethic. They're funding land conservation. They have a history of it. And so Montana, that's deeply rooted, right? And so right here, I would say locally, Missoula, Ravalli and Gallatin counties all have mechanisms that are voter approved, whether it's bonds or levies and established and used open space bond funding available for projects. I did look, because the trust for Public Land is a really well recognized national conservation organization. They actually do a. Every year they're tracking local conservation ballot measures, and I just thought it would be interesting to look. So for 2025, there were 35 ballot measures nationwide that sought public funding for conservation and parks, and 33 of them passed. So that's almost all of them other than two. So that's about 2 billion just in 2025 that were voter approved passed. And so, you know, that fluctuates that goes up and down over time. But Montana is consistently voting yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:00] That's amazing.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:12:00] So we talked a little bit earlier about holding a conservation easement. And there are different organizations that seem aligned with different priorities, whether it's maybe more interested in wildlife habitat, grizzly bear, habitat, egg. What does that look like in terms of the involvement of a Five Valleys Land Trust or some other organization? What do they do?

Jenny Zaso: [00:12:23] Sure. So our major project partners over the years have been Five Valleys Land Trust, Vital Ground, which is very much about grizzly bear connectivity and habitat, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Wildlife Habitat Focus Trust for Public Land, Montana Land Reliance and Nature Conservancy. There are so many and even, you know, fish, wildlife and parks, their state agency. But we have worked with them on some projects as well. And I think it's all about, you know, all of these organizations do a strategic planning and prioritization, and sometimes they are going for wildlife, big wildlife connectivity corridors or their mission is for wildlife connectivity. Some are specializing in big ag ranch land.

Speaker 5: [00:13:00] So they're putting.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:13:01] They're putting the project together. Yes. And then my understanding from watching on the sidelines a little bit is that there there's monitoring that then goes on after the fact.

Jenny Zaso: [00:13:13] Yes, yes. So the conservation partner who is holding the easement for any of our open space bond projects, so they are committing and signing up to stewarding that property in perpetuity forever. That's a huge lift for them. And so along with that, they need stewardship funding. They have, you know, a lot of mechanisms to do that. And open space bond dollars can go towards stewardship as well. But every single year they're visiting these properties, they're making sure that the protections that are in that easement are upheld, that there aren't any violations.

Josh Slotnick: [00:13:40] So I think a real positive to our open space bond program is the ability of this money to leverage other money. We're not paying for all of it. Would you mind speaking to that a little bit?

Jenny Zaso: [00:13:49] I love speaking about leveraged funds and impact because, you know, the open space bond dollars are on average funding about 15 to 20% of the total project cost.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:00] Say that again. That's pretty amazing.

Jenny Zaso: [00:14:01] On average, open space bond funds for any given project that we funded is about 15 to 20% of the total cost.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:08] Wow. That means we can stretch our money and do lots of projects and bring in other money that might not have been there were it not for this bond.

Jenny Zaso: [00:14:16] And many times it's because of the open space bond commitment that it's gone through that public process and that it's been approved, that then the organization can use that as match for other federal, private and state funding, which is huge. And so county project expenditures have, since 2006 has been about 7.5 million. But we've leveraged $33 million in extra funding.

Speaker 5: [00:14:41] Say it.

Juanita Vero: [00:14:41] Again. Say it again. Louder for the folks in the back.

Speaker 5: [00:14:43] Yeah.

Jenny Zaso: [00:14:43] So open space bond funding on projects has been about 7.5 million. And the other funding leveraged for those projects is 32.8 million, almost 33 million. So in other words, for every dollar of bond funding spent, that's being matched with $4.37 of.

Speaker 5: [00:15:02] Of other.

Jenny Zaso: [00:15:03] External.

Speaker 5: [00:15:03] Funding.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:04] How much do we have left from the 2018 bond?

Jenny Zaso: [00:15:07] So we have 5 million left and the city has 3 million left.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:12] When was the first open space bond in Missoula County?

Jenny Zaso: [00:15:14] So that is a wonderful question. I also like we're coming up on a big milestone here. So the first two bonds. So the first one, the very, very first one, which was the city of Missoula Bond, but still in the first one in the county.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:26] We'll take credit for it. It's still.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:28] Within.

Speaker 5: [00:15:28] Yes.

Jenny Zaso: [00:15:29] Uh, 1980 and 1980.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:32] And it was for, it was for.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:34] I remember the one in the 90s.

Speaker 5: [00:15:36] So the 80s and 90s, like you're getting. I was a jumbo. You're getting. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:40] You're 80s. I did not know.

Speaker 5: [00:15:42] The.

Jenny Zaso: [00:15:42] 80s and 90s from those bonds. You're getting Sentinel, you're getting jumbo. You're getting Kim Williams trail. You're getting Kim Williams as well. Yeah.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:52] So the first open space bond in the city, well, in Missoula County was in the city. And it was.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:59] So portions of jumbo and portions of Sentinel. And then we did the rest of jumbo.

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:03] Yeah, it's tough about those is that there are so many individual projects that came together. And so some were funded.

Juanita Vero: [00:16:09] By this.

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:09] Bond. Some were funded by this bond. Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:16:12] Um, so are we coming up again what we have against some anniversary here? Yes. Is that what I'm sensing?

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:16] Yes. So Missoula County voters have been voting for and have had access to open space bond funding since 1980. So in 2030, it'll be 50 years of successive available open space bond funding.

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:30] 50 years.

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:30] 50 years. So we definitely plan to do a community celebration.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:16:36] Can you remember that far back?

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:39] I'm just thinking in 2030 that that that 50 year anniversary may overshadow my farewell tour.

Juanita Vero: [00:16:46] Well.

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:47] Bummer for me.

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:48] We can we can schedule.

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:50] Schedule. Schedule.

Juanita Vero: [00:16:51] Schedule.

Jenny Zaso: [00:16:52] Yes. So stay tuned for that. Leading up to that, we have so many things to celebrate too. It's been 20 years since the 2006, so that joint city county bond funding was approved. And so for Public Lands Day coming up, we're working with Five Valleys Land Trust and with the city, we're going to have an open space bond adventure tour. So it's sort of this self guided digital tour where you can win prizes by going and, and checking out ten open space bond projects throughout the county.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:17:19] I was on.

Jenny Zaso: [00:17:20] Shall be.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:17:20] Really council in 2006.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:22] Nice job.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:22] I was on the open space committee. Yeah. Well see.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:25] I was beating.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:26] The I had.. A I had... An A line Bob though. That was calling it.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:33] Calling it sustainability. So can you tell us about some recent projects? It feels like there's been some really great victories in the.

Jenny Zaso: [00:17:41] Yes. In 2026, we've had actually three closings for open space bond projects.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:46] Jenny's been busy, been busy.

Jenny Zaso: [00:17:48] You know, these projects take years and years in the making. And so.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:51] And why does it take. Because people kind of kvetch about how long it takes. So why does it take so long?

Jenny Zaso: [00:17:55] It is a really, really big deal, especially when you're talking about these large, you know, Montana Ranch project and things like this. There are so many family members, you know, you have to have a lot of agreement between everybody. It's a really big, long process.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:11] If we're doing 15, 20%, it means there's a pretty big capital stack.

Jenny Zaso: [00:18:15] Fundraising takes a long time. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And you'll kind of see the scale of some of that here. And maybe I'll start with our two bigger ranch closings that have happened. So first being the Case Ranch, which is out in the Potomac Valley. So if you're driving out on 200 and you see those historical Anaconda copper mining log cabins just north of the highway, when you're in the valley there and that open field, that's really the gateway to a now permanently protected 2330 acres of the Case Ranch. So that's a conservation easement that's going to be held by Five Valleys Land Trust. Still privately owned by the Case Ranch family.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:52] So what can happen there and what can't happen there now?

Jenny Zaso: [00:18:55] It's a really great what can happen, which is going to be public hunting access, which the family has allowed for many, many years in the community. And I think they have a few kind of building sites for future generations. But all in all, it's protected, connected wildlife habitat, riparian area of Union Creek that's out there. They have grasslands, they have conifer forests. They have lush meadows.

Juanita Vero: [00:19:21] Camas.

Jenny Zaso: [00:19:22] Amazing. Yeah. Native plants. And yeah, speaking to the family, that was the agreement of all seven case family.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:29] Agriculture, forestry.

Jenny Zaso: [00:19:31] Agriculture.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:31] Hunting.

Jenny Zaso: [00:19:32] Forestry. Still going to be a working ranch, which I think is a really important consideration.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:37] Super limited development to just a few buildings related to the folks who own the property. Yes. Is there a chance that some of those iconic buildings, people see them stop and take pictures of them? Those old log buildings that they might be preserved, or at least the decay. Kind of arrested.

Jenny Zaso: [00:19:52] Yes, definitely. I think the historic preservation of that was a key consideration in that easement as well.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:19:58] Well, that's a great project. What what else?

Jenny Zaso: [00:20:01] So the total I just want to say the total project cost was about 5 million. And the open space bond contribution was just under a million at 994,550.

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:10] It was sticking to that 1 to 4.

Jenny Zaso: [00:20:12] Yeah. It was that same percentage to total that we usually do. But it is the largest bond funding amount to go towards a conservation easement purchase in Missoula County history with our portion of the funds and the remaining project balance was funded by that mix of federal, state and private. The other agricultural conservation project is the Enderlin Ranch, which is in the Y, just north of the city. Here it's the easement held by Five Valleys Land Trust. It's in the Valley Creek drainage and near the Y east of highway 93. This was a joint county city project, so open space bond funding was about 688,000, split 5050 between city and county.

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:50] Daniel Interrupt but that's outside of city limits. So why is the city involved?

Jenny Zaso: [00:20:54] Yeah. So our joint projects, you know, we take very seriously, it's like this sort of like, who is funding this? Especially when you're in this sort of like donut around city limits, right? So it's outside of city limits. But still, when we're talking about ecosystem services that land provides to the surrounding community, it's really important. So if you don't know what ecosystem services is, it's about your clean air, your clean water, your local food production, your scenic views, your wildlife connectivity and habitat that benefit everybody in the surrounding area. And so it really felt like there was enough of those benefits for city residents that that we wanted to have a joint.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:33] Project in terms of the interlocal. Are the city funds some projects alone, the county funds, some projects alone, and the city and county team up. But the borders of where that happened, where those things happen, are not consistent with city limits. They actually go out deeper into the countryside, and that's made real and solidified in our inner local. Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:21:55] So so it's it's not.

Jenny Zaso: [00:21:57] Gives us some flexibility.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:21:58] Yeah. So it, it, it is not just arbitrary and capricious thing as far as who's responsible or who's involved in which projects. This is spelled out very clearly in a document that both the city and the county have adopted.

Jenny Zaso: [00:22:11] Yes. Yeah. So that's another 1667 acres conserved out in the Wye area. And there's a lot of incredible conservation values, mostly the same as the Case Ranch.

Juanita Vero: [00:22:24] I mean, pretty incredible wildlife connectivity through that corridor.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:27] I've been impressed by looking at a map of where these projects have taken place over the years. So a lot of work clear up in the Swan Valley, Potomac Valley, obviously really all over Missoula County.

Jenny Zaso: [00:22:41] Yeah. And Missoula County and a lot of these, you know, we're not seeing public access. I think, you know, just to speak a little bit to how important Missoula County is to wildlife connectivity is that we are in an internationally recognized wildlife corridor that takes animals from Canada all the way down through Yellowstone, and we are right in the middle of that. And so.

Juanita Vero: [00:23:03] We're the glistening jewel in the crown of.

Jenny Zaso: [00:23:06] Glistening jewel. That's great. Yes.

Juanita Vero: [00:23:09] One of the last remaining intact ecoregions on the planet.

Jenny Zaso: [00:23:13] Yes. Yep.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:14] Well said.

Jenny Zaso: [00:23:16] Yes. We have really important open space all across our county, close to the city, way out in Seeley-swan Condon area and everywhere in between.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:23] Are these projects all typically of the scale of the last two you mentioned?

Jenny Zaso: [00:23:27] No. There is really no acreage limit or amount. There are smaller projects that we see closer to town, whether it's smaller ag projects, just smaller pieces that connect to other conserved land together. Those are really important connector pieces. So there's really not a one size fits all as far as acreage.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:49] And yeah, your office is working on a program designed specifically for small scale ag. I know it's not finished yet. Right. But it's not half baked either. It's well on its way. Are you okay talking about that a little bit.

Jenny Zaso: [00:24:02] Sure. Yeah. We have a lot of really important small agricultural parcels that are closer into city limits, but still sort of on those outskirts where a lot of our local food production comes from. And I think we all saw during Covid empty shelves. And what we see now is just safer to buy local food. It's healthier many times it's not traveling as far. And so there's lots of benefits to that. And so we have a lot of local producers that are interested in conserving their land, and a lot of community members that are also interested in sort of securing those parcels as well. And so working with landowners who are trying to find some solutions for smaller acreage conservation.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:40] When do you expect we might roll this program out?

Jenny Zaso: [00:24:43] We're really hoping to get our first project done by before 2026?

Juanita Vero: [00:24:47] Awesome. Wow. This fall.

Jenny Zaso: [00:24:49] We're getting so close.  Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:24:51] Great.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:24:52] Well, looking off into the future beyond that excellent program that we're looking forward to seeing launched here in the not too distant future. Other thoughts as far as what the future holds for open lands conservation? Open space bond dollars, since we still have a few million dollars left.

Jenny Zaso: [00:25:10] Sure. I think what's really interesting and where we're we're headed now is that, you know, our land trust partners, our land conservation partners, there are constantly projects coming up. There are still a lot of land to be protected. There's a lot of conservation values to be considered here in Missoula County. And so with the amount that we have left, you know, there's some really big projects out there that could it could be one project and that would be our balance and or there could be a lot of smaller ones that come up. And we're really just, like I said, just working with those landowner families and working with the funding stacks and all of that takes so much time. And so I think it's really important for us to, I think, as a community, as looking ahead and thinking about how we're funding open space protection in the future, when those bond dollars.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:52] Do you think things have become more difficult in this era in the for the world of land conservation, given that real estate values are so high, or maybe on the other side, this open space bond isn't new. Talking about the value, the conservation values, ecosystem, services, these things aren't new either. There's a lot more recognition now of why these things are valuable. And we have this red hot real estate market that just doesn't seem to want to slow. So compared to a few decades ago, where do you think we're at?

Jenny Zaso: [00:26:20] Yeah, I think it's it's very challenging due to the real estate market. We have, you know, a lot more enticing. You know, we have and we have this big succession of landowners that have owned property for a really long time that are now in their retirement age and beyond. And they're looking to make that step, whether they're transitioning it to a child or they're needing to sell it for whatever that may be for their family.

Juanita Vero: [00:26:43] And so how do families are complicated?

Jenny Zaso: [00:26:45] Yeah, families are complicated and the pressure is real.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:47] How does conservation fit into that? How could conservation be a kind of a legacy financial tool?

Jenny Zaso: [00:26:52] Sure. So a conservation easement still provides benefits to people as far as financial benefits. If you're not able to donate the value of your conservation easement, which some landowners do, which is amazing. But the reality is that many people need it, that development value to be purchased from them. And that's really where this funding comes in to do that.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:12] Is it accurate to say the value of the easement is the market value of the property minus the conservation value?

Jenny Zaso: [00:27:18] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:19] And what's left is the value of the easement, which on some of the tracts of land you're talking about could still be really substantial. Right. In a sense, landowners or their children or their heirs could receive a good chunk of the money that would have come from sale without actually selling and maintaining this property in perpetuity in the way that most of them have come to love.

Jenny Zaso: [00:27:40] Right.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:41] Well, I think in some cases, we've even seen some property owners donate a portion of that value. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:48] Yeah.

Jenny Zaso: [00:27:48] Right. And that's, like I said, that's why easements are customizable. I think people need to understand that maybe you'd still be able to save home site for a future generation, or you'll be able to have update your barn or to add if you have an agricultural producer coming on that you need, you want to think about what their needs might be in the future. And so there are considerations to be made there to make it work.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:12] What's allowed the conservation ethic or [00:28:16] what's allowed conservation easements to do so well in Montana, like you look around the country and we've conserved a lot in Montana, and especially here in western Montana or here in the Blackfoot watershed. It's pretty significant. What do you what do you think allows for that? [00:28:32]

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:32]  [00:28:32]Do we do we do better than like Utah or Idaho or Colorado? [00:28:35]

Jenny Zaso: [00:28:36]  [00:28:36]Well, I'm like so biased, but I do think that it's deeply rooted in Montana culture to love, open space, to recreate in open space. And I think it's tied to our economy as well. People come to Montana because of the open space, the open spaces, the view shed, the recreation. And so I think not only is it deeply rooted as a land ethic for Montanans to protect open space and wildlife and. [00:29:04]

Juanita Vero: [00:29:04]  [00:29:04]Working lands. [00:29:05]

Jenny Zaso: [00:29:05]  [00:29:05]And working lands and all that comes with that. But also it's, I think, built into our economics as a state as well. [00:29:12]

Dave Strohmaier: [00:29:13] Well, politically, I would also just throw in, and this sounds like maybe we're tooting our own horn a little bit, but I, I think it has taken here in Missoula County, the fact that we've had governing bodies, the city of Missoula County commissioners who preceded all of us sitting here who've been willing to put this on the ballot in the first place, because you could you could.

Juanita Vero: [00:29:34] Citizen citizens who vote for this.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:29:36] Well, and that's the other piece of the equation. But even to get to that point, I think our predecessors have eliminated a stumbling block by making it easy to get it on the ballot out in front of folks.

Josh Slotnick: [00:29:47] I also want to add that given that this is a voluntary thing, this kind of rhymes with another deeply held value in Montana, which is around private property. This further deepens the respect we have for private property.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:02] That's so well said and so important.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:04] If you own the land as the hinterlands and the case family said, they can decide if they want to do this with their property or not. It's not the government telling them to, or it's also not the government depriving them of that possibility.

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:15] Yes, I think it is so important to remind everybody that the commitment, the voluntary commitment that these landowners have made to protecting.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:24] And as Dave was saying, some families choose to donate, some don't. It's really up to the landowner.

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:29] Yes. Yep. I think they drive the process and there's a lot of support in our county for them, for those people that are making those decisions.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:37] In Montana, one of the reasons this continues to be a tool available to people is because it's so based in private property.

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:44] Definitely 100%.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:45] Oh, let's do the newest.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:46] Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:46] Oh, shall.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:47] We say about the newest conservation?

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:49] Thank you. I was like.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:50] About the newest, uh, open space project.

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:53] Yeah. So this closed on Friday of last week.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:55] Oh. Breaking news.

Jenny Zaso: [00:30:57] It's very exciting. So this is now called the Bonner Ridge Project. So it's an acquisition. It's a land acquisition. So not an easement yet. Although it will be protected by an easement in the future. Five Valleys Land Trust is buying 242 acres, has bought as of Friday, in part supported by open space bond dollars. So it's situated when you're going out to Bonner from Missoula. It's sort of like part of that scenic gateway. When you go out there, the forested mountainside there it is adjacent to an existing Five Valleys conservation easement known as the Bee Hill property. If anybody knows that one out there, it also has adjacent.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:35] Large bee on it. In case you're wondering.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:37] Yep, it's not B E E Hill.

Jenny Zaso: [00:31:39] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:39] B for Bonner Hill.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:31:40] We like to mark our hillsides.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:42] Yes we do.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:43] It's you know, it's part of the literacy project. You know l m and it goes right down the valley. But kids learn easier here. Yeah.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:50] They had to start in the middle of the alphabet.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:51] Oh. It's tough. It's tough. Funding runs out. You just gotta roll with it.

Jenny Zaso: [00:31:55] Uh, additional adjacent land to that is Milltown State Park to the north. And then Nature Conservancy checkerboard property as well. And it's a critical wildlife corridor. There's going to be public access for recreation and hunting there. So it's really exciting to have that one close.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:10] Does that mean at some point somebody could walk on a trail up bridge and up the Blackfoot? I don't know how much in the way.

Jenny Zaso: [00:32:18] I don't know how far up, but there are now like three connecting publicly accessible parcels. It's really that checkerboard. How far does that.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:26] What.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:27] How far can you go?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:28] Yeah. There's this Montana legacy lands up there. But you can.

Jenny Zaso: [00:32:33] You could go pretty far.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:34] But my gaze goes the other direction where you get a cold one at Kettlehouse.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:38] Brewery.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:39] At the bottom of the hill.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:40] Yes. And and then. And Dave. And then from the bottom of the hill you can go up. You can almost make it to Glacier National Park on public lands from Kettlehouse.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:48] Probably could eventually.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:49] All right.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:50] We have to figure out a.

Josh Slotnick: [00:32:51] Way to grab. People say that.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:53] Kettlehouse Kettlehouse has to be able to be part of that. Grab your beer, and then you swim across whatever. And then go to Glacier.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:33:01] We're ready for the grand finale.

Josh Slotnick: [00:33:02] I think we're ready, Dave.

Juanita Vero: [00:33:04] Oh my gosh. Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:33:05] So as scintillating as the content of these podcasts always are, we also try to, uh, have a capstone at the end and, and leave our guests with a little bit of inspiration, perhaps. So is there something that has inspired you, Jenny, recently, whether it's a good book, some bit of culture, something you've seen or read?

Jenny Zaso: [00:33:29] Well, I am an avid reader. I read so many books, but there is one that really has stood out to me, and it talks about land conservation in the West. Uh, it's called a watershed moment. The American West and the Age of Limits. So it's a collection of essays actually, by policymakers, local government officials, land and water managers, tribal members, writers, urban planners, biologists, and they all sort of talk about their community. And they're sort of like the tension between open lands and, you know, land and water management and things like that and growth and development.

Juanita Vero: [00:34:05] When did it come out?

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:06] 2023.

Juanita Vero: [00:34:07] Oh, wow.

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:08] It's really, really good. There is a chapter about Missoula in there. Recommend that you check it out. There's some of sort of like those key components are just the contrast between that traditional view of the West and all this endless space that we have in our finite resources, sort of that planning for growth and...

Juanita Vero: [00:34:27] Luther Propst! Oh, sorry, I totally got distracted. Yes. This is so good.

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:30] It's so good.

Juanita Vero: [00:34:31] Oh my gosh, I'm gonna like, cry just thinking about this.

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:34] Yes. Wow. Um, and then so that's my nonfiction. And I also have a.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:34:38] Okay, we got two for the price of one.

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:41] So any of the. Charlotte McConaughey. Have you read any of her books?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:34:45] I have.

Jenny Zaso: [00:34:45] Not. Okay, so the one that I'm reading now is Wild Dark Shore. And she always has this like human drama element playing out where there's this like ecological kind of tension happening. And so the natural environment piece of it is so well researched and you learn so much about wherever, you know, the book takes place. And then you also have this like page turning sort of drama that's happening. It's really good. So the other book she's wrote are once There were Wolves and Migrations. Any of them are so good. I'm reading the third one now. It's amazing. They're amazing.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:22] Thanks, Jenny. Those sound great.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:35:24] Yeah. Good tidbits.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:25] Yeah. And thank you so much for coming.

Jenny Zaso: [00:35:29] Thanks for having.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:29] Me. This was really fun. Good work you do.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:31] Yep. Missoula County is so lucky to have you. Thank you. Jenny.

Jenny Zaso: [00:35:34] Thanks. I'm so happy to be here. This was a lot of fun.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:36] Thanks, everybody for listening.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:38] See ya.

Josh Slotnick: [00:35:40] Thanks for listening to the agenda. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean a lot if you rate and review the show on whichever podcast app you use.

Juanita Vero: [00:35:48] And if you know a friend who would like to keep up with what's happening in local government, be sure to recommend this podcast to them.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:35:54] The agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners is made possible with support from Missoula Community Access Television, better known as MCAT, and our staff in the Missoula County Communications Division.

Josh Slotnick: [00:36:06] If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss on a future episode, email it to Communications@missoulacounty.us.

Juanita Vero: [00:36:13] To find out other ways to stay up to date with what's happening in Missoula County, go to missoula.com/updates.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:36:21] Thanks for listening.