Myth Busters, Volume 4: Public Comment, Government Spending and TIF

Another year is almost at a close, which means another round of myth busting! This week all three commissioners take turns quizzing each other on local government myths about how tax dollars can be spent, jurisdictional authority, tax increment financing and more!

Heard a myth about county government? Submit it on missoulacountyvoice.com! 

Thank you to Missoula's Community Media Resource for podcast recording support!

Transcript

Juanita Vero: [00:00:10] Well, welcome back to the agenda with your Missoula County Commissioners. I'm Juanita Vero and I'm here today with my fellow commissioners and friends, Josh Slotnick and Dave Strohmaier. So, uh, we're back for volume four of MythBusters. This is where we're going to take turns quizzing each other on myths we hear from our constituents. So let's let's start with this, uh, this softball. Anyone can comment at a public meeting, I think.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:36] Dave, Dave, you do the you do the first one. I'll do the next one. Okay.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:39] Let me think about this. Yes, absolutely. Anyone can comment, uh, at a public meeting or in any other venue before the commission.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:47] So, Dave, what happens if somebody just gets up to the podium and, you know, they start ranting and raving and pretty soon 45 minutes have gone by.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:54] Well, as I recall, when you've chaired meetings, you really crack the whip, Josh.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:59] And we've got we've got that, uh, we got that hourglass.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:03] So.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:03] So there are.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:04] There are sideboards.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:05] Three minutes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:06] Yes. Three minutes.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:08] And thanks to Steve Niday.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:11] That's where that came from.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:12] Those came from.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:13] Well done. Those are his personal.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:14] Analog.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:15] Hourglass.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:16] Hourglasses.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:16] Three minute glasses.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:17] And no, this is an important point because whether you live here in Missoula County or whether you have an interest in Missoula County, if you bring up a good idea, we want to hear it.

Juanita Vero: [00:01:29] Well, okay, so what happens if I can't get down to Sophie moist? Because, you know, parking in downtown Missoula is god awful? Yeah. And this meeting's happening at 2:00 on a Thursday. I've got to work out what.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:40] This.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:41] Is called a silver lining of Covid. We figured out how to participate remotely so that could use your your old fashioned telephone. You can call in and offer comment, or you can use Microsoft Teams and use that as the platform by which you participate. But, you can either get down here in person or participate virtually.

Juanita Vero: [00:02:02] And, uh, where where do I get this information?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:02:05] Well, you can call the commissioner's office, among other things, and you can leave a voicemail for us. This is outside the context of a meeting. So let's just step back a minute. You want to talk to Juanita Vero or Josh Slotnick and provide a comment? You can call Dave Strohmaier. Depends what the issue is. Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:02:23] He's got a legion of bovine like my assistants. In between that just keep keep people at bay.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:02:29] I have a periodic, uh, open door policy, so. So you can call us anytime about anything at (400) 625-8487 seven. Now, if you want to participate in one of our public meetings virtually and not just randomly call in to us here at the office, but if you actually want to participate in one of our meetings and offer public comment, go to Missoulacounty.Gov. This is our Missoula County website Site, and on that page you will find a link to public meetings. Click on that and you can find out connection information about how to participate in our meetings and offer comment if you so desire.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:08] Perfect. And also.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:10] Ideally, you'll be offering comment within the realm of what is our jurisdiction. Now, sometimes you don't know what that is and that's.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:18] Very.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:18] True. That's that's fair. That's fair enough. But if you are interested in military intervention in Venezuela or you name the whole range of issues that are clearly outside the scope of the board of county commissioners, we're probably we'll hear you out for three minutes, but we're probably not going to be able to do anything.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:40] That's a good point. Both those are really good points. I just want to reiterate them. You can come talk about anything you want for three minutes, but please ring fence your expectations, knowing if you can what it is we have jurisdiction over and what it is we have.

Juanita Vero: [00:03:54] What's that verb again?

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:55] Put a ring fence, put.

Juanita Vero: [00:03:56] A fence, put a ring I could not understand. Okay. Ring fence.

Josh Slotnick: [00:03:59] Yeah. Your expectations, if possible. But you can talk about anything you want for three minutes.

Juanita Vero: [00:04:05] And if you're interested in things that aren't on our agenda. Um, but you've heard about them. You should really check out Missoula County Comm, because there's a plethora of county projects there that allow folks to provide feedback and also get questions answered straight from the horse's mouth.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:22] So what are some of the things that are on voice right now that people could respond to?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:27] Funny you should ask, Josh, the last time I checked, there's there's a handful of items on there, and these are basically sketching out some areas of prime interest on the part of the public.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:38] Where decisions will be made, where.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:39] Decisions will be made, and there's an opportunity on here to offer comment. So for instance, again, the last time I checked, I believe on Missoula County Voice, there was a floodplain mapping link.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:52] Oh yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:53] That's going on as we speak. There's something I heard brewing in our community related to feral horses, so there's a link on there for that. There's a Browns field issue link. I believe there's Blackfoot Crossing development out in Bonner, or we've heard a lot about that from our constituents in West Riverside, Lolo water and.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:16] Wastewater.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:17] Wastewater.

Juanita Vero: [00:05:18] There's a variety of of of land use projects.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:21] And uh oh least but not least, I think I saw on there the, uh, why infrastructure plan.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:27] Yeah, these are all big. These are all big projects that are brewing. And it's important if you have something to say, that you get out there and say something.

Juanita Vero: [00:05:34] Sharon.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:34] Is that on there?

Juanita Vero: [00:05:35] Still on there? Are there old projects there too, so that you can see what the county has done in the past?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:41] Okay.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:41] If you want to check out what's happened in the past and.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:43] What we've accomplished.

Josh Slotnick: [00:05:44] Well, we've some some things that have been done that's great. Yeah, we're very excited to have this as a resource to gather public input. We get to read these things. So your words are are heard.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:55] Can I ask the next question?

Juanita Vero: [00:05:57] Of course.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:05:58] Okay. Who among us wants to talk to money and.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:03] Talk to money?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:04] Well, talk about money. Okay, you can talk to it, or you can have it as a conversation partner.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:10] I would love to chat about this.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:06:11] Well, here's the question. And I take it that you're volunteering to answer this one. And that is, can we spend Missoula County tax dollars on anything whatsoever that the commissioners want to spend it on?

Juanita Vero: [00:06:24] Yes. If you have the cojones to do it. Yes. You. Yes you can.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:28] I want I want to expand I want to expand on this. And my friend Juanita is absolutely right. Tax dollars. Yes. But what I feel like is the big misconception that underlies that underpins this question. And it's around our budget. And for a lot of folks, they use the federal government as kind of a model. So if they're spending at the federal government, it must have come from income taxes. If you want to get taxes down, reduce spending because they are the they are opposite sides of the same teeter totter. That is not how it works in county government. Two thirds of the money we spend does not come from local property taxes. One is 100% correct. We can do with property tax money tax revenue mostly as we wish, but that's only a third of the revenue. And as Juan said, if we have the cojones because spending, collecting, asking for property taxes has to be done really thoughtfully, carefully. And it's also in a very tight box written by the state legislature. Let's put that aside for a moment and talk about the two thirds of the other money that we can spend that comes from grants. Either they're competitive or formulaic from the state or the federal government also comes from fee, money fee for service. To say that that money comes with strings attached is a great understatement. It comes with giant cables attached. Case in point Marshall Mountain. Because this a lot of people were really excited about this, and some people didn't like it. And they said things like, wait a minute, why don't you just fix Boy Scout Bridge instead of buying Marshall Mountain? As if we could take the Marshall Mountain money and use that to fix Boy Scout Bridge.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:55] The money for Marshall Mountain came from a voted on bond. Sure, it's a whole bunch of money in the open space bond, but that has a big cable that says this money can only be spent on open space, purchasing or purchasing conservation easements, or doing some other work associated with open lands. It can only be spent in that way. We get money from a small tax on cell phones. We don't institute this tax. This is a statewide thing that we can use for Office of Emergency Management. We couldn't take that cell phone money and use it to fix Sunset Hill Bridge. Sorry one this money comes with strings attached. Two thirds of the money we spend is not fluid. And this is really difficult because in no other realm. But government does this almost in no other realm but government does this exist a little bit in nonprofits, but certainly not in the private sector. So my family's had a family business forever. I know Juan's had many generations longer than ours. When we bring in revenue, we can use that money to pay any bill we like or to invest in our business in any way we like. That is not how it works with government. We get revenue from this small cell phone fee. We can only use that on emergency management.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:08:59] Well, maybe another example would be something we talked about this morning. Our open space bonds. Mhm. Um this one before the voters. Yeah. But I think that the take home message there is that voters cast their ballots in favor of. And you might disagree with it, but it's democracy. It's democracy. A majority of folks in Missoula County voted to tax themselves for open space. And as such that money can be used for that and not anything else.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:26] And the dictates for how that money was spent was in the ballot language. I mean, it wasn't just like they voted on this thematically, the exact words that describe how the money can be spent on that was on the ballot.

Juanita Vero: [00:09:37] What about really pressing issues that are emergencies? Or we were talking about homelessness. So, um, so.

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:45] One.

Juanita Vero: [00:09:45] You how can we address that?

Josh Slotnick: [00:09:46] You are right about we can spend tax money in almost any way we want. But I would say roughly, I'm going to I'm going to go out on a limb and say in the 80 to 85% range of things that we do, we are statutorily obligated to do. We can't not have a jail. We can't not have public works. We can't not have a justice system. All of these things and a whole bunch more are dictated to us by the state government. Thou shalt local government must have these things. So when we collect tax revenue, we have to meet our statutory obligation. We have a little bit left for things that are more discretionary, like, oh, we're going to deal with homelessness or attempt to deal with housing or something like that.

Juanita Vero: [00:10:24] But it's such a tiny amount.

Josh Slotnick: [00:10:26] It's a tiny, it's a tiny fraction. And we're also statutorily capped on how much tax revenue we can bring in. We have a far better chance, I think, at funding these things by looking for grants or having voters.

Juanita Vero: [00:10:39] Vote on these things. What do you mean by these things?

Josh Slotnick: [00:10:40] Things outside of what we're statutorily obligated to do, and even things that were statutorily obligated to do, like roads and bridges. The reality is they're straight up is not enough money to meet the need.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:50] So you look back at this last budget cycle, and we denied several million dollars of requests that staff brought before us.

Juanita Vero: [00:11:00] And for really important.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:11:01] Yes, they were.

Juanita Vero: [00:11:02] Worth their jobs. None of them were mandated to do.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:11:05] They were not frivolous, and there were hard choices to be made there. So for me, that demonstrates there's real needs in this community that far outstrip the revenue that we are bringing in and our capacity to do those.

Josh Slotnick: [00:11:18] Absolutely. And even if we wanted to say something like, oh, well, the needs are super hard, we're just going to bite the bullet and say yes to all these things, and everybody's taxes are going up, but we'll get this stuff done, and in the long run it'll be better. We couldn't do it because of there's a statutory cap on how much we can increase our tax revenue each year. And right now it's the rate of inflation we can only increase by the rate of inflation. Now somebody might look at how much revenue we brought in and be like, wait a minute. That's greater than the rate of inflation. It's because there is newly taxable property every year, and that property comes on the tax rolls and that money comes on top of the rate of inflation. But that piece is only paid for by the owners of that new property, not by existing property owners. Also outside of that inflationary cap is anything people vote on. So if we voted in open space, that goes outside the cap as well.

Juanita Vero: [00:12:14] So back to the original question or statement rather, because this is something that we do hear a lot about in comments, any money Missoula County has can be spent on any service or project. False. False. False.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:26] That is false. All those.

Juanita Vero: [00:12:29] Sad to say, it is false, folks.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:30] Two thirds of the money we get comes with big giant cables attached as to how it's spent. And then the other one third, about 80, 85% of that we spend on meeting our statutory obligation. So we're looking at a very slim amount of tax revenue that is fully discretionary.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:12:46] I've got a little bit of a spin off on this.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:49] Spin, brother.

Juanita Vero: [00:12:50] So.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:12:50] So here's a question. Does Missoula County have jurisdiction to do anything it wants anywhere in Missoula County?

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:59] No, of course not.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:13:00] Of course not. So so talking about spending money, I don't know about you guys, but from time to time I have heard constituents articulate concerns about something that's happening in the city of Missoula. That doggone pedestrian bridge over Reserve Street. I mean, you name your favorite infrastructure project in the city of Missoula that someone might potentially not care much for. That is something that we do not have jurisdiction over in that our road fund, for instance, we can use those dollars for transportation projects outside of the city of Missoula. But it's not the Missoula Board of County Commissioners who are allocating those dollars here within the city.

Josh Slotnick: [00:13:41] And I think we all fully get that people who live here pay taxes and are busy with busy lives and it's not their fault. It does not behoove them to understand these jurisdictional boundaries. They pay money into the system. They want the system to work. That totally makes sense. And the reality is there are very clear jurisdictional boundaries that define responsibility. Funding sources and where money can be spent and outside of the city limits. We are not the only elected representatives. We are not the only decision makers. We have an incredible sheriff. We have an incredible county attorney, an incredible clerk and recorder, some amazing judges, an auditor, all of.

Juanita Vero: [00:14:19] The superintendent of schools.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:20] Superintendent of schools.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:14:21] So let me reframe this as a question. Does the Board of County Commissioners have jurisdiction over all of the other elected officials in Missoula County?

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:32] No, no, no.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:14:33] Not at the top of the org chart.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:34] No. We ultimately pass a budget and are in charge of taxes. But in terms of the day to day operations of specific areas of Missoula County government, I can mention the sheriff's department or the county attorney's office, or the auditor, or the superintendent of schools, or the clerk and recorder. Those elected officials manage the day to day operations of their world. We do not have, say their statute describes what has to be done, but all those officials operate within that statutory defined box and make decisions as they see fit. And if the public doesn't like it, they can vote them out and vote somebody else in. That's why these people are elected and electable.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:09] Well said.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:10] Well, it's too Tiff. I've been talking too much. But I love Tiff.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:13] But I know someone. Do you want.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:16] To go.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:16] For it? Let me let me cue up the question here. And, uh, whoever wants to take a stab at that, please do. So here is the potential myth. Private businesses can use tax increment finance money for anything they want.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:32] Absolutely not. Don't worry, this next monologue is only going to take about 45 minutes. So just hang tight. No, I'm just kidding.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:39] There's a multi-episode.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:41] Multi-episode? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So we have districts in the county called Targeted Economic Development districts. Ted's inside. Ted's financing mechanism exists, called a TIF tax increment financing.

Juanita Vero: [00:15:55] Do you want a little different than what's in the city, though?

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:57] Absolutely. In a city. Cities don't have Ted's. They have erds. Urban renewal districts. The big difference here is that in the city, an urban renewal district by definition has to address blight. A Ted targeted economic development district is not addressing blight. Instead, we're addressing infrastructure deficiencies in the name of encouraging industrial development. That's what Ted is designed for. Now, in the recent past, the legislature said workforce housing can be part of a Ted. So workforce housing is some of the things that can be done within a Ted. Private businesses can apply for tax increment financing to do projects, but those projects have to address infrastructure that would facilitate further industrial development. One way I personally like to think about this is that the infrastructure would outlast any one business. So it might seem like I'm going to make one up. Acme manufacturing is looking for a sewer line. Well, my goodness, we are just throwing Acme manufacturing a bone and choosing winners and losers. And this is terrible. This isn't how government is supposed to work. The idea is that the investment catalyzes economic development. Now, this business, Acme Manufacturing, is going to exist. And if they go away now, there's a building with a sewer to it. So now the next factory or manufacturing entity can occupy that space and hire people and move forward. Sidewalks are infrastructure. Acme can go away and be replaced by amalgamated. And these are these are 20th century corporations. Now that would be called something like Senesco or something. Altura.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:33] Yeah. How about the fans at the Bonner Industrial Park?

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:36] Yeah. So way back.

Juanita Vero: [00:17:37] When. When?

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:38] Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:17:38] Way cryptocurrency.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:39] Way back when? In the before times. Prior to the pandemic, there was a Bitcoin mine factory out there at the former Bonner Mill. They wanted new fans that would keep their servers cool and make less noise, which offended the neighborhood. And our Missoula Development Authority board said no. Those fans are specific to your business. They would be an improvement. You fund that, which.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:18:01] Is a good thing. Since they went out of business.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:02] They went out of business. What you're saying is really important because the development would not outlast that business if they were looking for fire suppression.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:18:10] Oh, there's a fire station out there.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:12] Great fire suppression water. No matter what business is in there, they need fire suppression. They needed sewer. They needed sidewalks. They needed road paved. Something like that is a piece of infrastructure that outlasts any one business. Totally qualifies. And now workforce housing.

Juanita Vero: [00:18:25] Back to Bonner Industrial Park. What about the toxic pile? What do we do to get rid of that?

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:31] Well, we use TIF money to get rid of the toxic pile because imagine if the toxic pile is still there. No business can be there.

Juanita Vero: [00:18:37] What's the proper term for it? Because toxic.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:18:39] Repository.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:40] Repository. What a great euphemism repository. It could be like a repository of information. No, it was a repository of toxic waste. But once that repository is gone, a building can be built there, and a business can inhabit that space. And once that business goes away, another business can. So there's a.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:18:58] Public benefit piece of it.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:00] Infrastructure is a public investment that I believe yields private prosperity. And that's the essential equation that undergirds TIF. So there have been a lot a lot about a lot last.

Juanita Vero: [00:19:11] Oh yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:11] Keep going. So there's been a lot of talk. And I think this is well placed talk and well placed concern about erds in the city. And Ted's in the county that these things last too long because as property taxes go up inside the district, the gain in property tax revenue is not shared by all the taxing jurisdictions, whether that's a fire, district, schools or county government. Instead, that money, that increase is sequestered inside the district to fund these projects. Even if the responsibility for providing services via those jurisdictions goes up. So it's a bit of a not so well funded mandate. Thou shalt must provide schools and education, but we're not going to pay for it. So I totally understand why that consternation is there. I think that our state legislature is well aware of this, and has started looking at Irds and Teds and begun to put more sideboards and tighten these things up. And I think we at the county have done some really. We've taken some thoughtful measures about the collection of tax increment financing revenue in that that dial can be adjusted. Are we going to keep 100% of the revenue we keep inside the Ted to fund projects, or can we say we're going to keep 60% or 70% and return x percent to some of the the other jurisdictions, like the fire district or the school district. So it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I also think we can be really thoughtful about when we use this financing mechanism to bond and make sure that the life of the bond doesn't add dramatically to the life of the district.

Juanita Vero: [00:20:43] What's, uh, what's the life of districts now?

Josh Slotnick: [00:20:46] Typical lifespan is 15 years. And these districts can bond to cover the cost of very expensive infrastructure. We just need to be really thoughtful about when we do that bonding. So we don't extend that 15 years out to some really distant years. I do want to note that in the county, we've been good about this and that we have Teds that have sunsetted and expired. And now the added revenue and the development that happened there is all in the tax rolls. I also want to say one more thing and I promise I'll be done. I think it's a mistake to look at the return on investment as only tax revenue.

Juanita Vero: [00:21:19] Oh totally agree.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:20] So look out at the Bonner Mill. There was a time when there were nearly 1000 people employed out there. Then there was a time when there was a couple dozen people employed out there. Now there's like between 6 and 700, something like that. And those 6 or 700 people are employed, not in a precarious sense in that they all work for the same business. And if that business goes away, they all go away. The return on the investment in the Ted is not just that the repository got hauled away, or there's better fire suppression water. The return on the investment is those jobs and all the economic vibrancy that comes from those households having that money and the ancillary businesses that feed the businesses that exist there. And it's part of our responsibility to do economic development and make sure the extent we can there are good jobs and economic vibrancy in our community, and that's the essence of what's supposed to happen in a Ted. It isn't just about tax revenue.

Juanita Vero: [00:22:10] Well, that Bonner Industrial Park is just a fantastic it's a gem. It's a.

Josh Slotnick: [00:22:14] Gem, a.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:14] Great job. And and it's it's one of the tools that we have in county government. Uh, one of a very finite number of economic development tools. And it's predicated on the development not taking place of its own accord, were it not for being able to reinvest those dollars.

Josh Slotnick: [00:22:31] And at, at at the old Bonner Mill. I think it's a great, a great example, the cost of removing that repository, the cost of bringing water and sewer and the rest of it in there, to the degree that it is now, was too high for any one entity to meet. And I believe if it hadn't been created, it would still just be an old defunct mill. Same thing with our technology district.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:50] City of Missoula has had ERD sunset, so were it not one of the original erds in Missoula downtown, I think we would not be seeing the vibrant downtown that we have here.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:00] Absolutely, absolutely. And there are some erds in the city that have gone on for a very, very long time because of continual bonding. And there's been a great return on the investment in terms of job and economic vibrancy. But there's a cost in that really long life. And I think when we have a thorough and real discussion about TIF and Ted and Erds, we need to talk about all of it.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:23:22] Josh, I, I know you could not care a whit about TIFFs and Teds, but nonetheless, I'm going to take a stab at this to see if you still have some energy left to answer this one. So when it comes to decisions about tax increment finance dollars. Are these made by some just advisory board out there, or do the county commissioners play a role in in decision making?

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:47] This is a great question, Dave, and a great Mythbuster, because in this way we are different than city governments. And this isn't evil Missoula city, this is city governments versus county governments. So the way that Ted Ted's as a districts and tifs as a mechanism are managed here at Missoula county is that we have an advisory board called the Missoula Development Authority, and this board is made up of subject matter experts in things like real estate, economic development, engineering and infrastructure. We created this board and this is according to statute. The MDA board would meet and hear a request to create a Ted or to spend money in an existing Ted. They make a recommendation to us, the Board of County commissioners, and then we say yes or no. So the unelected appointed Board of Subject Matter Experts takes public testimony, asks hard questions because they actually have real expertise in these areas, and then they make a thoughtful recommendation to us, and then we get to review that recommendation and give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. And it means a lot if this board comes to us and says, oh, it was a 3 to 2 vote. Well, man, that's really tight. We really need to dive in super hard if it's a unanimous vote. Yes or no. Of course, the three of us will look at it and do our due diligence, but it means an awful lot. If this appointed board of experts speaks with one voice or a divided voice.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:05] Thanks for that.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:06] Do you want me to ask and you answer?

Juanita Vero: [00:25:07] No, no, no, I.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:08] Like you better. I've been talking too much.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:11] County spending is not audited.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:13] False. False. We have a county auditor. An elected official.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:18] Elected.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:19] Elected.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:20] Yes. This is one of the 11 elected officials for Missoula County.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:25] I got to ask you this.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:26] Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:26] Why is he elected? Doesn't require any political ideology to keep track.

Juanita Vero: [00:25:30] Of.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:31] Money in and money out. Like, why elect this guy? Why don't we just appoint him?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:35] Well, by state law, we haven't elected.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:37] Some places don't.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:39] Well, the size of the size of our county. By virtue of the size of Missoula County, we have a standalone elected county auditor. It's not merged with any other elected offices. And we do have a few elected offices that are merged together. This is not one of them. And our county auditor actually goes through and examines and investigates claims presented against Missoula County. So the bills that what.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:07] Does claims is people suing us.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:09] No, no not that. Well we do on occasion get get sued.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:13] But that's not the auditor's job.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:15] Think about purchases.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:16] So we purchase.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:17] A lot of things and we get invoiced for a lot of things.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:21] We're still paying off bonds. Jaguar. Something's going to take years to Jaguar.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:26] So. So yeah, each of those purchases are county auditor and his staff. Go through them and compare what was purchased with what is an allowable expense.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:37] So I get that statute says the county is a certain size. We elect this person. But really, what's the underlying logic there? I mean, why why elect somebody who doesn't have a political side to them? They're just basically an accountant. Why should this person be elected?

Juanita Vero: [00:26:49] Who doesn't report to us.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:50] Doesn't report to anybody but the voters? What I wanted to highlight here is that the independence of an elected official allows this person the space to really go after our books with ethics, accuracy, and the law in mind because they can't say, you know, I'm going to give this contract to Josh's brother in law, and if I don't, then I'm going to get fired because the commissioners appointed me. We have no authority over the auditor, which I feel like is super important because we do have authority over spending. This person can look at our spending without fear of political retribution. We have no power over the auditor. I feel like this independence is very important.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:32] And this person also is both independent from us and the finance office that we directly supervise and have oversight over. And this individual is also independent of the county treasurer, another elected official.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:47] The auditor, only answers to the voters.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:49] So besides the auditor, we also by state law. External audits.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:54] We have audits done of our work.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:57] We have audits done of our work. That would be the appropriate way to phrase that.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:00] Yes. And if I remember right, and please, you guys correct me if I get this wrong. We've had some issues here and that we hired auditing firms that left before the audits were done, and we had to go find new firms and.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:15] Twice in a row.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:15] Twice in a row. And apparently there is a paucity a few firms nationally that do this type of work. A government, local government auditing is not a super common thing, and there's not a ton of money to be made there. So people who have these skills work in the corporate realm, not the local government realm, so it's been difficult to find firms to do it. But now we were we are all caught up and back on schedule and look forward to continuing our relationship with this firm out of Pennsylvania or something. We tried Montana and struck out. There was nobody here who wanted to do this work.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:28:47] Okay. I don't know when folks will be listening to this podcast, but as we record it, we are just about a few days away from Thanksgiving. So it seems appropriate that we take this moment to, uh, maybe deviate from the questions we typically ask our guests and, uh, and just see if we have anything to be grateful for. What's going well? What are we thankful for?

Juanita Vero: [00:29:09] Oh, man. I'm, uh. I'm in the midst of reading everything's tuberculosis because our last podcast guest was the Gina miller, our director of, um, Missoula Public Health. That was her recommended book. And it is so good. And I am so grateful to live in this community with access to the health care that we do have access to. And, uh, yeah, I'm grateful for the health of this community.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:29:36] I'm grateful for the two of you. Oh, it's, uh, it's, uh.

Josh Slotnick: [00:29:39] That was going to be mine. Well, the gift of the Magi.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:29:44] Exclamation point. No, it's it's great serving with both of you and and serving with a great staff, communication staff in particular, who has opened up to creative thinking to do things like what we're doing right here and use podcasts or other means of, of, uh, just reaching out to our constituents and, and the community. But yeah, it's great being surrounded by smart, thoughtful, caring and committed colleagues.

Juanita Vero: [00:30:12] Oh, man, I want to take mine back. Right back at you guys.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:15] I was going to be mine. So that's a gift of the Magi thing. There's an ancient cultural reference nobody will get. Okay. All right, well, it's my specialty.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:23] That holiday is coming up.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:25] And you realize I'm turning 86 next week.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:30:27] You don't look a day over 90, Dave.

Josh Slotnick: [00:30:30] If you're a swell guy. Okay, so for what I'm grateful for, I'm going to build off of what you just said. And I was just chatting with somebody, a butterfly, herbs and other meeting right before this. I feel like all day long we engage with really smart, committed people who love where they live. And their passion stems from that, whether they represent business community, the nonprofit community, regular old people, staff members, folks who work for other governments. Like all day long, I get to talk to really smart, really committed people who are coming from a place of loving where they live, and I feel so grateful that that's the basis of my job.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:08] And we get to be part of creating the place. The. Yeah. That's right. Absolutely. The place that people love to live, where people love to live. Like what a huge responsibility. What a huge honor it is.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:20] I'm grateful for the challenge. That is the obligation of attempting to meet the expectations of those folks.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:27] Happy Thanksgiving all.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:31:29] Happy Thanksgiving.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:30] Everybody. Thanks for listening to the agenda. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean a lot if you would rate and review the show on whichever podcast app you use.

Juanita Vero: [00:31:40] And if you know a friend who would like to keep up with what's happening in local government, be sure to recommend this podcast to them.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:31:45] The agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners is made possible with support from Missoula Community Access Television, better known as MCAT, and our staff in Missoula County Communications Division.

Josh Slotnick: [00:31:57] If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss on a future episode, email it to communications@missoulacounty.us.

Juanita Vero: [00:32:05] To find out other ways to stay up to date with what's happening in Missoula County, go to Missoula.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:32:12] Thanks for listening.