The Evolution of Marshall Mountain

Marshall Mountain Park sits between East Missoula and Bonner and is publicly owned by Missoula County. Many lifelong residents learned to ski there as kids, and the legacy of learning continues today. 

This week, the commissioners spoke with Jackson Lee, park manager, to review what’s new at Marshall Mountain Park since it was acquired by the county in spring 2024. They discuss new trails, planned improvements, forest health and Commissioner Slotnick’s nascent mountain biking career.

Learn about how Marshall came into public ownership in this episode from 2023.

Thank you to Missoula's Community Media Resource for podcast recording support!

Transcript

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:10] Welcome back, everybody, to the agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners. I'm Josh Slotnick and I'm here with my friend and fellow commissioner Dave Strohmaier. Juan couldn't join us today, but we have our very own Jackson Lee, who's the manager of Marshall Mountain Park. And he's here to talk to us about what's been going on at the park, relatively new thing, and now quickly becoming part of Missoula culture.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:31] Has it been a year since we took ownership of this?

Jackson Lee: [00:00:34] A year and a half.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:35] A year and a half. How time flies. So what has happened in that past year and a half?

Jackson Lee: [00:00:40] Yeah, we'll get you up to speed. Thanks for having me on the podcast.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:00:43] Well, yeah, absolutely. And that's a great hat that you have. It says Marshall Mountain Park with this kind of retro logo.

Jackson Lee: [00:00:51] Yeah, we're keeping the old retro logo, the colors, all the marketing's done it.

Josh Slotnick: [00:00:56] It feels like that kind of 70s ski culture.

Jackson Lee: [00:00:59] Yeah, that's a great legacy piece that we have thanks to previous owners of Marshall Mountain.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:05] Actually, today both Dave and I are wearing neon onesies. No one can see it. But we're we're here. Right.

Jackson Lee: [00:01:11] Go. Warren Miller, ski film.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:13] We are straight up. It's not. It's 1978 at Lake Placid, folks. It's perfect.

Jackson Lee: [00:01:19] Well, yeah. I'd love to get you up to speed on what's going on up at Marshall Mountain Park. Missoula County's only mountain adventure park.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:25] Oh, I like that.

Jackson Lee: [00:01:26] And so I can I could provide a little site context of of where Marshall Mountain is as well.

Josh Slotnick: [00:01:31] Yes.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:01:32] Please. Please do.

Jackson Lee: [00:01:33] So it's a 480 acre park. It sits between the communities of East Missoula and Bonner, West Riverside, and it's owned and operated by Missoula County in partnership with the city of Missoula. And generations of Missoulians learn to ski at Marshall. And the great part about the evolution of the mountain is now generations of kids are wearing the mountain bike up there, and there's so many other uses we'll get into day two. But the legacy of learning up at Marshall is very alive and well, and so that will be a piece we want to touch on today. It's been an important part of why it was acquired and much of what our schedule looks like up at Marshall Mountain throughout the year.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:02:06] So I guess just in terms of the physical park itself, what needed to happen before any expansion or anything, any new programing occurred, just lay it out there.

Josh Slotnick: [00:02:20] And it wasn't a blank slate either.

Jackson Lee: [00:02:22] Yeah. So the the ski resort commercial ski operation last season was 2003. And so they when they shut the doors that season, much of the infrastructure just remained in place. And so over that last 20 years before there was public acquisition, there was still a lot of community investment interest in the space. And so there was actually informal public recreation going on at Marshall for much of the last 20 years since its closure. And what we saw with that is you had these the goodwill of previous landowners, you know, the Doring family, Five Valleys Land Trust, Izzy dog, all creating having a space there that the community could still use for recreation. And so a lot of the story of Marshall. After publicly acquiring in 2024, is just a continued use of the site by the public. But the upside of public ownership for us is now that we can assure that what has made Marshall so great for so many years, the learning opportunities, the recreation opportunities, are now there in perpetuity. So that was a huge part for us. But as to the infrastructure, a lot of that sat dormant for the last 20 years. And so the the buildings are in fairly poor shape. But I think part of that history and the decay that we see up at Marshall, there's opportunity with friends of Marshall Mountain to make improvements at the base area and try to match the infrastructure with the use we're seeing up at the site. But there's also an interpretive element and ability to recreate at an old ski area is a pretty cool thing. And so we see a lot of interest by the community in the old lift and the lift towers, as well as the remnants of back in the heyday when it was the ski area.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:03:54] Josh, this guy's glass is half full. Absolutely. With decay comes opportunity. That's what I heard. Yes.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:01] Yeah. We're going to spread that message far and wide. Okay. Equals opportunity. So in preparation for this, Dave, I did deep research.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:09] Okay.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:10] My wife came.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:10] Yesterday.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:11] We rode up marshall mountain.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:13] Oh, and you're still walking.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:14] And still all limbs intact. Yeah. We rode the Izzy up.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:04:18] Izzy.

Josh Slotnick: [00:04:18] Up? Yeah. And then took hello Kitty down to the road. And then took the road back to the base area. And I just wanted to compliment Jackson. Now, for real newbies like ourselves in terms of real mountain biking, great signage. The paths were in fantastic shape, everything was easy to navigate and was, as advertised in terms of people like us could use this route to get to the top and use these routes to get to the bottom. It was great. So in terms of benefits of a park like this could have just been informal recreation until some private landowner said, no, I'm going to close the doors. This was way better than informal recreation and that trails were not overgrown. I didn't need to consult all trails and onyx and make sure I was on the right spot, and then maybe potentially catch myself in a position where I couldn't bike down safely. Trail maps were accurate, everything was as advertised, and also this was kind of an added bonus, and just what you'd expect in Missoula ran into people along the way who are all friendly and helpful and happy to be there with this kind of celebratory air about the place was quite a wonderful experience.

Jackson Lee: [00:05:22] That's fantastic. Josh. Yeah, it's a testament, I think, to what's happened since public ownership and the level of partnership that's up at Marshall Mountain. So the trails you're riding on, we have an agreement in place with the Missoula Mountain Bike Coalition, and that group has been pivotal in constructing and maintaining trails at Marshall, but also throughout the Missoula Valley. And so in the first, as an example, in the first year of public ownership, Missoula mountain Bike Coalition received a grant award from the state to construct. We constructed over five miles of new beginner adaptive friendly trails. Not only was the mountain acquired, but then we had a project cued up that same year that delivered on the accessibility, the highest accessibility priority of the master plan. And so those trails when I say beginner, adaptive friendly, what that means is the the specifications for those trails, they're wider, the grades are more accommodating for more users. And we've been working with Missoula Adaptive Recreation and Sports. They partnered with the Bike Coalition on design of those trails. And so it's been this really great win for Marshall, which for a long time had a lot of intermediate to advance mountain biking use. And now these trails not only round out the mountain bike offerings, but they're that easy. Up trail that you were on is a multi-use trail and bike uphill only. And so there's some ways that we've been able to expand what users are out at Marshall very early on in the story of public ownership, I really.

Josh Slotnick: [00:06:39] Appreciated the bike uphill only. Yeah, because it's hard to bike uphill. Right? So your head is down, sweat all over the place and just grinding it out without fear that somebody is going to come around the corner going 40 miles an hour, and I'm going to have to figure out where to go. So I really appreciated that, that.

Jackson Lee: [00:06:55] You skipped a step as well. You went down. Hello Kitty. Yes. Mission to Mars is our easiest trail.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:07:01] Yeah. Oh, that's the one I'm going to go.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:03] So I have to say. So we got to the top and there were two dudes and this one woman who I was describing to earlier, you know, clad like she was ready for battle, but she was just going down headwall and, uh, said, hey, do you have any recommendations? We're going to do Mission to Mars, but what do you think? And all up there said, oh, you'll like hello Kitty better if you could. If you could get here, fine. You'll be able you'll you'll be able to do that. And it was wonderful. Kind of the, the vibe of the place a friendly collaborative. It was awesome. So you mentioned kids. What's the what's the kid situation in Marshall?

Jackson Lee: [00:07:34] Yeah. So some of it ties directly into the trails you're on. So yeah, to sum it up, youth programs are integral part of Marshall. And they've been that way for, well, generations in decades. Now they'll learn to ski school at Marshall. Yeah. Like every other contractor we run into, learn to ski at Marshall.

Josh Slotnick: [00:07:50] My son learned to ski there, right?

Jackson Lee: [00:07:52] And so it's this. There's this great nostalgia, I think, for Marshall that comes from that. But what we've seen is it didn't go away. It's just been an evolution. And so in the last several years, some groups locally have really stepped up. So you have the derailleurs program through City of Missoula Parks and Recreation, which is elementary age kids learning how to mountain bike. And then you also have the skills progression with programs like the Rangers and Missoula mammoths that allow that elementary age derailleurs to graduate up. And they get to do all of this at their home mountain, which has been their home mountain for years now. Marshall mountain, so that's a huge part of the success of the Marshall story, and part of the legacy piece that we're carrying forward. The other side of it is outside of mountain biking. There's been these great extensions since public ownership of more diverse, as well as just more youth programing in general. So we'll have a running club, trail running club up there this this fall. And then Meg Witcher with city Parks and recreation programing. You have the derailleurs program that she runs, but throughout the summer, and it's a huge upside for us in terms of like the entertainment throughout the day. There's summer camps, uh, going on up at Marshall. So Meg and her programs through City Parks and Recreation bring over 2000 youth participants up to Marshall a year. Wow. Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:09:05] So, Jackson, I think you are kind of hitting on this already, but not infrequently. Uh, have I gotten the question? We have thousands upon thousands of acres of public land surrounding us here. Why did we need to invest in this particular portion of the landscape and bring it into public ownership and and all that goes with that?

Jackson Lee: [00:09:29] Marshall is a really unique recreation offering. And that's I'll talk both in terms of winner and then non winner uses. So you did have since the area closed this emergence of mountain biking certainly being our prevailing use there in the summer. And often we get questions about, you know, why is that important? Well, in Missoula County, it's the only place with a sanctioned bike specific trail network. And so what we really see is, is Marshall Mountain is the hub for the mountain biking community. And then in the the winter side, you know, I wanted to dispel a myth out there, which there is still remains a lot of winter use up at Marshall Mountain. That's good to know. Um, and the backcountry ski and snowboarding community, uh, one of our partners in the winter, Montana Backcountry Alliance, they were really involved in demonstrating how important that was during the acquisition process. And what makes Marshall unique for the winter community is the backdrop is a ski area. And so they utilize those old legacy runs in Marshall. Throughout its history, there was there's a slogan on a poster that says minutes, not miles away. And that was always a key piece for Marshall and remains a key piece today is its proximity. Not only the city, but we're talking, you know, between East Missoula and Bonner.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:10:43] West Riverside minutes, not miles.

Jackson Lee: [00:10:46] I think why that rings true for folks is it's it's proximity to town. It's why it was successful with night skiing. People could peel away, go there after work. And we see the same recreation trends today as people really use Marshall as part of their their daily life. We see people taking laps with their mountain bike before and after work, and we see the same thing on the winter side as well. And so I think, Dave, to your question about why it's important for the community is it's an integral part of people's daily lives here. So for the general recreating public, that's a very important piece. And it's year round all season use. You know, this past winter was a really great snow year. And we had winter use rivaling summer use. And so that parking lot on a good ski day is reminiscent of when it was a ski area.

Josh Slotnick: [00:11:32] Oh that's amazing.

Jackson Lee: [00:11:33] Which is really great to see. And the other upside of Marshall, I think from a recreation perspective is the approachability of the terrain for winter users. So a lot of people learn how to backcountry ski or snowboard up at Marshall Mountain, but you don't. You also don't need to go uphill to have a great time at Marshalls. There's a lot to do with the base area, especially in the winter. We have sledding that happens at the base. We have community events. Our park ranger, Silas Phillips, which I think has been one of the greatest things we've done in the last year and a half, is hire Silas nice. And he's just this kinetic force of goodness and kindness and has really great interactions with people up there. So he started to host events in the winter. He's had, you know, there's a fire pit at the base and after people are done ski and they come down and gather.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:17] It's so.

Jackson Lee: [00:12:17] Good. And then in the summers we've been having newbie nights where it's just this opportunity to get more people up the hill to hike or to mountain bike.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:25] What? Is there a scheduled series to these newbie nights, or is it just kind of organically?

Jackson Lee: [00:12:30] Yeah, he just finished two of them and we're probably looking at what.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:33] What were they like?

Jackson Lee: [00:12:34] They were great. We had new users to the park. I was there for the mountain biking night. I'm a I'm a beginner myself.

Josh Slotnick: [00:12:41] Same as me, right?

Jackson Lee: [00:12:43] So they've been a great way to get more people up to Marshal Mountain awareness around that. It's publicly owned, but we also have so many great outside programs that are also hosting beginner clinics up there, which I think goes back to why it's important in the community, is it's the most accessible space to mountain bike within Missoula County. It's also the most easy to learn backcountry ski there. There's all these opportunities that start at Marshall Mountain that are focused on beginner and new users.

Josh Slotnick: [00:13:12] Yeah, and throwing more compliments your way. I really appreciate the no dogs and no e-bikes. And that isn't because I'm anti dog or anti e-bike. It's because when biking there I knew that I wasn't going to have those conflicts. And I'm really appreciative that there's a place where someone, at least at my skill level, could really focus on biking, not worried that I was going to round the corner and be face to face with an Australian shepherd running the wrong way. Sure. Which would cause us both harm. Right. And the same thing with the with the e-bikes too. God bless e-bikes for all kinds of reasons. But it was great that I didn't have to run into folks on e-bikes going the opposite way, or zip in past me at 40 miles an hour.

Jackson Lee: [00:13:49] Glad you highlighted both of those today, because they were talking about new use and what to expect when you're up there. Those are two of the the core rules right now. And I think the no dogs piece for us, you know, that's the best practice for its really high use space for skiing and biking. And so the the speed of travel and then the just doesn't work. Yeah it's very challenging in that way. And we hear that feedback what you just said, which is people enjoy the freedom from in some ways Marshal, it's a different recreation experience. And there's so many places within the valley to.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:20] Say that it's one. I mean, I have two dogs. I was making fun of my own dogs there, actually, and the fact that you can go to Blue Mountain and have your dog just run wild under voice control or at the DNC. Uh, it's great. There are places to do this.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:14:33] There are plenty of places to step in dog poop.

Josh Slotnick: [00:14:36] Yes, yes, many places the same in dog poop. But it's good that there are places where you can just focus on your bicycling without concern of our having a dog conflict.

Jackson Lee: [00:14:45] Yeah, absolutely. The e-bike question is interesting. We have a proposal that Missoula mountain Bike Coalition submitted to consider class one. So pedal assist e-bike use at Marshall Mountain. And we haven't made any decision at the Missoula County level yet. So currently no e-bikes allowed at Marshall. What we're finding is even the, uh, the position of the coalition has shifted over the years where looking at class one e-bike use, if we were to look at anywhere Missoula Valley, it may make the most sense at Marshall Mountain. And so we're starting to take steps. We have a visitor use study underway with the University of Montana.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:21] Oh, I she handed me a GPS unit yesterday and I dropped it off in the bucket on the on my way back down.

Jackson Lee: [00:15:27] Abby, you'll be on the heat map.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:29] Yeah, yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:30] Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:15:30] She's like, look at those old people. Pedal slowly. Looks like the tall ones getting streaky.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:15:38] It's so. Jackson. So you talked a little bit about the trail work that's been done up there. And, and there's certainly a whole array of programing that you've mentioned. There's also the broader landscape itself and just land management work that I know is going on up there in terms of vegetation management and such. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Jackson Lee: [00:16:02] Yeah, I'd love to be part of the acquisition package. Is the funding to purchase Marshall Mountain was community forest funding through the United States Forest Service. And so that allowed us to not only help to acquire the property, but a requirement of that funding is to do a community forest plan. So in the first year of ownership of Marshall, we have we now have a community forest plan in place. That was done and back in the summer of 2024. And really exciting to announce that we have we're going to implement the first phase of that forestry work up at Marshall starting here in September.

Josh Slotnick: [00:16:33] Fantastic.

Jackson Lee: [00:16:34] So this project is thanks in large part to the Missoula County Wildfire Program, who had a DNC Forest Action Plan grant that we were then able to use up at Marshall to implement this first phase of the forestry work. So the project scope is about 65 acres. It has, you know, improving forest health has lowering wildfire risk. And then the kicker, the third piece is it also improves the winter recreation experience. And the treatment area is the highest priority treatment or area in the forest plan, which is coincidentally the legacy ski runs and adjacent to those. So we'll be able, you know, three key goals that we'll be able to hit on of the forest plan within this first phase. And what it will lead to in the winter is more skiable space, but also a healthier forest and hopefully safer summers.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:17:20] Josh, I don't know if you knew, but as a cost cutting measure, Juanita, you and I will be doing the chainsaw work. That's great. That's great.

Josh Slotnick: [00:17:28] I'm ready to go. If you were to look out five years from now and you had your way, and I know that you've got grants pending out there, and the grant landscape has changed a lot in the recent past. But if everything went your way, what would Marshall look like in five years and in such that in a way that's different than it looks right now?

Jackson Lee: [00:17:45] Yeah. Josh, I think one piece of of the Marshall story, and we've been set up so well in terms of looking at the acquisition process, looking at the support from partners that we have, and then honestly, the legacy of the place really makes my job and Silas's job a lot easier. And so when we forecast out five years, a key piece of that is Friends of Marshall Mountain. And that's this core group of five people that have been really involved. They formed out during the acquisition process, but they've stayed really involved following and they've fundraised a tremendous amount of money.

Josh Slotnick: [00:18:16] And so these are five in the core group, but the full group is probably in the hundreds.

Jackson Lee: [00:18:21] I would yeah I should ask them about their membership. They've got their five members. But I think anyone can be a friend of Marshall. Yeah. So yeah, so many other folks that are involved in the group just in terms of providing financial support, but also in terms of just being interested in Marshall Mountain and ensuring that it was a place the public could go in perpetuity, which has been a huge part of their story. Their acronym is Foam. When we look at foams work. We're trying to be good stewards of the work they've done and the funding they've been able to secure. And so we're looking at grant funding now that would hopefully lead to the base area being redeveloped. And to have the base area redevelopment better match the the recreation needs and uses we're seeing up there now. So that's our main goal around fundraising and grant writing right now is to secure those improvements at the base area, as well as in support with the support of the Mountain Bike Coalition. Rounding out the trails that are in the master plan, the early phase trails.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:22] To more trails.

Jackson Lee: [00:19:23] To. There's one more trail coming online this year, Which is a new double black diamond technical trail. Probably your next track.

Josh Slotnick: [00:19:31] Yeah, Dave and I, I think maybe. I need some height or, you know, I gotta. Jumps are important.

Jackson Lee: [00:19:38] Yeah, jumps are important.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:19:40] So what what are the, uh, foreseen base improvements look like?

Jackson Lee: [00:19:44] Yeah, to distill it down at the base, we want to have shade. Are drinking water. Those are the two core ones that come up most often, especially with the amount of youth programing up there. We want to make sure we get those back online, but renovated lawn space is another piece. We're looking at trailhead facility improvements. So you would have trailhead kiosks, but we would also want to have, you know, Forest Service style vault toilet up there. And so really just trying to better match the amount of use we see up at Marshall, which is tremendous amount of use we're seeing. So 2023, to give you a sense, there was an average of 75 users per day at Marshall. And then our peak is in May at 150 users per day, but we think those numbers are already on the rise. We've added new trail. We're improving the winter experience and hopefully with the base area, not only can we support the use we have happening already, but we can foster more use up at Marshall. You know, I think for a long time the base area was a place that people congregated Missoulians folks from East Missoula or West Riverside. It was it was this hub of all season outdoor space for folks to use. And so with the base area redevelopment project, trying to bring those core improvements back online so that people don't necessarily have to venture up the mountain to have a really good experience up at Marshall.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:03] And if I remember it, there's been quite a few events up there as well.

Jackson Lee: [00:21:06] Yeah, that's a great piece of it. Even with the aging infrastructure, event promoters, youth programs, they make do and they have these really, you know, high octane fun events. So as an example, the Missoula XC is this signature event at Marshall, which is national international mountain biking race as far as the draw, and it's organized locally by MTK. And that event has been going on for a long time up at Marshall now.

Josh Slotnick: [00:21:33] Where do they ride on the mountain?

Jackson Lee: [00:21:35] They have a short course and then a longer course that they do up at the mountain. It. I think it changes a bit each year, but generally it's this spectacle that takes over Marshall for about 2 to 3 days of racing each year. And it's been a really important part of the history of the place. The XC race has really started to galvanize the interest around trail development at Marshall. Back in the 20 tens, and that's put us in a really good position now with where we're at with the trail system at Marshall. So outside of the XC, the other piece, and I think this goes to why public ownership is important up at Marshall, as we've seen, because people are aware that it's publicly owned. We've had people reach out with new event opportunities up at Marshall. So Mike Foote, who puts on run the route That race series, he started the Marshall Mountain revival up here, which the first year it was this year in May, and they had 200, 250 runners up at Marshall. A lot of those folks may be up there for the first time running on trails. And it was the timing was great and that we had the running race when the new trails had been constructed. So now we get feedback from folks who have run wild, Missoula and others that they're they're using that as a space just for their morning or evening runs now too. So the events up there are are a huge part, I think, of the culture of of Marshall.

Josh Slotnick: [00:22:53] Great, fantastic.

Jackson Lee: [00:22:55] Yeah.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:22:55] So if folks want to learn more about Marshall Mountain, I should know this, but is there a web page or someplace to to access information?

Jackson Lee: [00:23:04] Yeah, there is a web page. Marshall Mountain. Com.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:23:06] Okay.

Jackson Lee: [00:23:07] Missoula County owns the domain now, uh, which is an improvement since the last year. And then the other piece and I think if you really want to get tapped in to what's happening at Marshall Mountain, go to the Instagram page at Marshall Mountain Park because Silas, the park ranger, he posts trail reports, snow reports on there. We cross post events and programs coming up at Marshall, so he's a really good steward of that hub of Marshall Mountain Communications.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:35] Awesome. Great.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:23:36] Anything that we should ask you.

Josh Slotnick: [00:23:38] We did. What did we miss or something you want to talk about around Marshall that we we haven't hit on yet?

Jackson Lee: [00:23:42] I one of my favorite parts about Marshall is we certainly have this really strong enthusiasm around the mountain biking community up there, and it's growing and it serves as this great place for that use. And there's so many partners that are really making that work. And I think we highlighted some of them today and just really appreciate what they do up there. I think the other piece that Silas and I like to do when we're up there is really get a sense of who's using the place. You know, we we mentioned backcountry skiing and snowboarding. We have freestyle skiing and snowboarding. I think like small jumps and rails, we call them the gremlins. They usually take over the base area in the winter. This year was a great year for huckleberries. You have for forging up at Marshall. Seeing folks use the place for orienteering, environmental education, trail running, hiking. So I think it continues to be what it has been for a long time, which is this space that utilized by by a lot of our community. And I think a good example of that is we have from the 2022 2023 study, we have a fairly good stance as to East Missoula and Bonner, West Riverside residents, their use of Marshall, and so East Missoula they visit at six times the rate, the per capita rate for a Missoula County resident and then for Bonner West Riverside. It's double our average visitation for for Missoula County residents. So it's really still what I think is important about that stat is it's it's demonstrating that it's still important to those closest to the mountain.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:02] That's fantastic.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:03] Yeah. What a public private partnership success story.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:06] Yeah, yeah. Great. Great work Jackson. Well thank you. We're very appreciative you've chosen to do this with your time.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:11] And Jackson, as you might know, part of our tradition is allowing our guests the opportunity to share some bit of inspiration, nugget of wisdom, a good book, a piece of culture that you've run across that you think others might have some interest in. So take it away.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:29] You got anything?

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:29] Anything.

Jackson Lee: [00:25:30] I live in fear of the book question because I start books. But don't finish.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:25:34] Well, you are in very good company.

Jackson Lee: [00:25:36] I think I've, uh. I think I've started the River Wye about six times, and I should just rename my copy.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:42] Why not? The why bother reading it?

Jackson Lee: [00:25:48] Uh, but I think a nugget of wisdom also related to fly fishing, so I, I live out at the confluence, Clark Fork and Rock Creek. And, uh, we've been getting the household getting into mousing this summer.

Josh Slotnick: [00:25:59] Oh.

Jackson Lee: [00:26:00] You all know what mousing is for as far.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:26:01] As brown trout. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:04] Describe what that is.

Jackson Lee: [00:26:05] Okay, so, uh, it's a really impractical. It's even more impractical than fly fishing.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:10] Wow.

Jackson Lee: [00:26:10] Yeah. So what you do is you go out at night, you go out at dusk or in the pitch black with a pattern, a flat pattern that looks like a mouse, and you cast it out there and you inevitably snag so many times. But sometimes you get it out there, and the goal is to catch a big brown trout or one of these larger Montana trout. And so you're out there at odd hours of the night. I find it to be really fun. All right. But the nugget of wisdom is, and I'm not a licensed fishing professional. It's a grain of salt. This is not actual fishing advice.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:43] Okay, okay. Fishing conversation.

Jackson Lee: [00:26:45] I've heard smaller the sip, the bigger the fish on a mouse pattern.

Josh Slotnick: [00:26:49] What does that mean?

Jackson Lee: [00:26:50] So, as I understand it, if if a fish were to come up for the mouse pattern and slash slash the top of the water, that's actually a smaller fish than if it would slowly come up for that mouse. And the idea is, being a larger fish would need to put less effort into eating a mouse.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:05] Okay, so have you ever caught a fish doing this?

Jackson Lee: [00:27:08] No, never caught a fish doing this. It's a totally futile pursuit.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:11] So, so, given giving those.

Jackson Lee: [00:27:13] Words of wisdom.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:14] Is there some? Is there some wisdom to be taken from this as a metaphor?

Jackson Lee: [00:27:19] God, I don't know.

Jackson Lee: [00:27:19] What do you have, Josh?

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:21] I don't know if that the the bigger you are, the less hard you have to try. Is that what it is? Is that what? Is that what's going on here?

Jackson Lee: [00:27:28] I don't I feel like I should or said I.

Jackson Lee: [00:27:30] Should finish the river wine. I'd probably.

Jackson Lee: [00:27:32] Know.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:32] Or is it the bigger they are, the harder they fall kind of thing?

Jackson Lee: [00:27:35] I don't.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:35] Know. I think there's a limit to be had here. Yeah.

Josh Slotnick: [00:27:38] Well, but actually I'm going to go deeper. I think there's something much more to be said for pursuits that look on the outside like they are about results. Like you get back to your house and your person says, well, did you catch a fish? And you say, no. And I had a great night.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:27:56] But I got a couple good sips.

Jackson Lee: [00:28:00] There you go.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:02] Better to sip than be drunk.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:28:06] Thanks, Jackson. We appreciate you joining us.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:08] Yeah. Thanks for all your work.

Jackson Lee: [00:28:09] Oh, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:11] You bet. Soon. Thanks for listening to the agenda. If you enjoy these conversations, it would mean a lot. If you'd rate and review the show on whichever podcast app you use.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:20] And if you know a friend who would like to keep up with what's happening in local government, be sure to recommend this podcast to them.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:28:26] The agenda with the Missoula County Commissioners is made possible with support from Missoula Community Access Television, better known as MCAT, and our staff in the Missoula County Communications Division. If you have.

Speaker6: [00:28:39] A question or a topic you'd like us to discuss on a future episode, email.

Josh Slotnick: [00:28:43] It to communications@missoulacounty.us.

Juanita Vero: [00:28:46] To find out other ways to stay up to date with what's happening in Missoula County. Go to Missoula. Updates.

Dave Strohmaier: [00:28:53] Thanks for listening.